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tardis_stowaway) wrote2016-05-08 02:50 pm
tardis_stowaway) wrote2016-05-08 02:50 pm
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Initial Captain America: Civil War reaction post
Friday night I did a rewatch of the first two Captain America movies. When Bucky fell off the train into the chasm, I made a distressed noise that caused my cat Noodles to get up from where she was dozing on a different chair and come snuggle beside me on the couch. Thank you, Noodles. <3 I needed that comfort in a time of emotions.
Saturday night I went to see Captain America: Civil War. Tragically, Noodles could not accompany me to help me deal with all my feels.
-Overall, I loved it! There are a number of caveats I’ll get to, but overall I think it was a strong movie, about as strong as it could be given the fundamentally annoying “make the heroes punch each other” premise.
-I would watch an entire movie of Steve, Sam, and Bucky roadtripping in a VW bug. I would watch a TRILOGY about that.
-It was fun to watch the movie with an excited opening weekend crowd, including my friend L. who is kinda hilariously reactive to things she’s watching. The most amusing moment of reaction happened when Steve and Sharon kissed.
CROWD: general reactive murmurs, many sounding surprised or negative, but a few “awwws”.
SOME GUY: *wolf whistle*
FRIEND L: What the whaaat??!? (After the movie, she said she found it really weird that Steve seemed to be having a thing with the niece of the woman he used to be involved with. Very valid point.)
ME: Well that was random. (By “random” I meant “obvious attempt to shoehorn in a heteronormative romantic moment to obscure the fact that this movie reads much more naturally as a love story between Steve and Bucky.”)
BUCKY AND SAM: Quick, we have to make faces like amused, pleased, straight wingmen to cover up our jealousy.
-I HAVE SO MANY BUCKY BARNES FEELS RIGHT NOW. (This is typical for days ending in -y, but especially true at the moment.) Pardon me while I wordvomit, or feel free to skip to the next bullet point. Poor sad trashpanda was just trying to lay low and deal with his shit in peace, having recovered his sense of self all on his own, then some asshole decides to frame him and Steve found him but they had no time to have a proper conversation (and certainly not reunion sex, dammit) before a lot of cops showed up and they had to have a foot chase in the car traffic and then he got arrested and strapped to a fucking chair, which must have been brutal given how many awful things he’s experienced strapped to a chair, and then said asshole REACTIVATES HIS PROGRAMMING AND FUCKS UP HIS HEAD AGAIN and made him kill more people, but Steve still believed in him and showed this by getting into a tug of war with a helicopter, and Bucky totally could have shot Steve but even through the programming he didn’t do that and instead just crashed the helicopter. And then Steve pulled him out of a river after an aircraft crash because they are always saving each other and apparently going unconscious plus seeing Steve got him back in his head. And then he had to fight some superheroes because he always helps Steve out in his fights and also they thought they needed to keep the asshole from taking over the world, but it turned out asshole just wanted the superheroes to fight more and decided to provoke that by using stuff that HYDRA brainwashed Bucky into doing and there was a lot of fighting that could have been avoided if Tony would have calmed down for ten minutes and considered the meaning of BRAINWASHING and then Bucky’s arm got ripped off and it’s clear that that thing was linked to his pain receptors, ack! And then everyone was finally so punched into a pulp that they calmed the fuck down at last but Bucky was so worried about his inability to control his own head that he had himself put back into cryofreeze, goddamn it. But it’s a long way between Siberia and Wakanda, so hopefully Steve and Bucky managed to get some sexytimes in at some point.
-Steve is still very much a tiny stubborn lonely kid inside, and it hurts my heart. I just want him to be happy, dammit. It’s clear that he would give up pretty much anything and everything for Bucky.
-I really loved the opening Avengers mission where it’s clear that they’ve been working together and training Wanda in espionage and superhero team skills. The followup conversation between Wanda and Steve where they discuss how to deal with having made mistakes that led to people dying was also great.
-Sam! I enjoyed watching the badass new moves he had like using the wings as a shield. I love the further deepening of his friendship with Steve (he went with Steve to Peggy’s funeral, awww) and how he is thoroughly part of the team. Wish he’d had a bit more of a plotline of his own, oh well. I am highly amused at the way they gave Sam a drone as a nod to comics!Falcon’s actual falcon Redwing.
-Natasha is trying so hard to do the right thing for the world while also doing right by her friends. She gets a lot of shit from people for being morally grey but I think she’s actually a deeply moral person, she just is willing to do more dubious things in support of the larger picture. I adored the scene where she came to the end of Peggy’s funeral and gave Steve a hug. (This movie needed so many more hugs for Steve, and everyone else too.) I wish the movie had more of her, but then again, that’s my complaint with every Marvel movie. If they ever make a Black Widow film my complaint will be the ten minutes she’s not onscreen.
-Super excited to see Black Panther! His look and fighting style were a joy to behold. Even in this crowded movie he got a plotline of his own. It was a pretty simplistic “Grief=>Vengeance Quest=>Really Stubborn About That Vengeance=>Finally Laying Down the Need for Vengeance” storyline, but he handled it with grace and charisma. I look forward to the Black Panther movie and getting to know him more.
-I don’t care if Vision was “worthy” to lift Mjolnir in AoU, because in this movie he was definitely the Creepy Boyfriend towards Wanda. He walks through walls to intrude on Wanda’s conversation in her room. He prevents her from leaving the house. Dude, just because you’re a mystical android or whatever doesn’t make this stuff okay. Wanda, meanwhile, is maturing into a thoughtful young BAMF; she's great.
-The scene at the end with Rhodey and Tony (and the most excellent Stan Lee cameo) was lovely. I suspect Rhodey will be calling literally everyone he knows to tell them about Tony Stank. I do wish the movie had made a bit more focus on his friendship with Tony before the accident. He got grievously injured to further the (white) main characters’ plotlines, and didn’t even get much character development to make up for it. :( I hope this isn’t the end of his appearances in the MCU.
-The things I disliked most were mostly the things I already disliked going into the movie, namely the general premise that all the heroes are fighting each other and that the movie shoehorns in Ant-Man and Spider-Man instead of focusing on the already large cast of existing Avengers. Black Panther is a cast addition that made sense, but those two were only there to pad out the fight scenes and have some one-liners. The scenes with the Arthropod Dudes were lots of fun, but they were tangents that I felt weakened the movie as a whole.
-It felt really contrived to me how the movie had all the characters willfully refuse to calm down, listen, or compromise so it could get all of the superheroes fighting. I dislike this whole Civil War premise and hope that future movies go back to building a team instead to fight actual evil.
-Hot Young Aunt May? Whyyyyyyyyyyy? I am weirded out.
-I am a super bummed that Tony and Pepper have broken up and that she wasn’t in this movie. It explains some of Tony’s less than stellar decisions and poorer than usual emotional stability in this film, but I wish it hadn’t happened and I hope it is undone AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Like, I want a random scene in Doctor Strange where someone is looking at the celebrity news and sees that Tony Stark and Pepper Potts have gotten back together. That is the urgency of this situation.
-Seriously, why did Tony decide that a battle with other superheroes where various governments were just itching to arrest the lot of them was the right time to bring in the teenage kid crimefighter he’s been eying? Pepper would never have let this happen.
-“Spider-Man WIll Return” said the end of the credits. Of course Spider-Man will fucking return. More Spider-Man movies are only slightly less certain than death and taxes. I really like the character, but the number of movies he has (especially compared to all the heroes who aren't white dudes) is ridiculous.
-Personal headcanon that Clint and Natasha started fighting each other in the big brawl because they were each trying to keep the other away from the more enhanced fighters who might hurt them worse.
-When Nick Fury gets back from wherever he is, he is going to be SO PISSED OFF.
-Can the Captain America scenes in the next Avengers movies just be Steve receiving hugs and having barbecues with his friends and petting animals and generally being happy? And the same for Bucky? Plus lots of them tenderly making out? No? Well, thank heavens for fanfiction.
Saturday night I went to see Captain America: Civil War. Tragically, Noodles could not accompany me to help me deal with all my feels.
-I would watch an entire movie of Steve, Sam, and Bucky roadtripping in a VW bug. I would watch a TRILOGY about that.
-It was fun to watch the movie with an excited opening weekend crowd, including my friend L. who is kinda hilariously reactive to things she’s watching. The most amusing moment of reaction happened when Steve and Sharon kissed.
CROWD: general reactive murmurs, many sounding surprised or negative, but a few “awwws”.
SOME GUY: *wolf whistle*
FRIEND L: What the whaaat??!? (After the movie, she said she found it really weird that Steve seemed to be having a thing with the niece of the woman he used to be involved with. Very valid point.)
ME: Well that was random. (By “random” I meant “obvious attempt to shoehorn in a heteronormative romantic moment to obscure the fact that this movie reads much more naturally as a love story between Steve and Bucky.”)
BUCKY AND SAM: Quick, we have to make faces like amused, pleased, straight wingmen to cover up our jealousy.
-I HAVE SO MANY BUCKY BARNES FEELS RIGHT NOW. (This is typical for days ending in -y, but especially true at the moment.) Pardon me while I wordvomit, or feel free to skip to the next bullet point. Poor sad trashpanda was just trying to lay low and deal with his shit in peace, having recovered his sense of self all on his own, then some asshole decides to frame him and Steve found him but they had no time to have a proper conversation (and certainly not reunion sex, dammit) before a lot of cops showed up and they had to have a foot chase in the car traffic and then he got arrested and strapped to a fucking chair, which must have been brutal given how many awful things he’s experienced strapped to a chair, and then said asshole REACTIVATES HIS PROGRAMMING AND FUCKS UP HIS HEAD AGAIN and made him kill more people, but Steve still believed in him and showed this by getting into a tug of war with a helicopter, and Bucky totally could have shot Steve but even through the programming he didn’t do that and instead just crashed the helicopter. And then Steve pulled him out of a river after an aircraft crash because they are always saving each other and apparently going unconscious plus seeing Steve got him back in his head. And then he had to fight some superheroes because he always helps Steve out in his fights and also they thought they needed to keep the asshole from taking over the world, but it turned out asshole just wanted the superheroes to fight more and decided to provoke that by using stuff that HYDRA brainwashed Bucky into doing and there was a lot of fighting that could have been avoided if Tony would have calmed down for ten minutes and considered the meaning of BRAINWASHING and then Bucky’s arm got ripped off and it’s clear that that thing was linked to his pain receptors, ack! And then everyone was finally so punched into a pulp that they calmed the fuck down at last but Bucky was so worried about his inability to control his own head that he had himself put back into cryofreeze, goddamn it. But it’s a long way between Siberia and Wakanda, so hopefully Steve and Bucky managed to get some sexytimes in at some point.
-Steve is still very much a tiny stubborn lonely kid inside, and it hurts my heart. I just want him to be happy, dammit. It’s clear that he would give up pretty much anything and everything for Bucky.
-I really loved the opening Avengers mission where it’s clear that they’ve been working together and training Wanda in espionage and superhero team skills. The followup conversation between Wanda and Steve where they discuss how to deal with having made mistakes that led to people dying was also great.
-Sam! I enjoyed watching the badass new moves he had like using the wings as a shield. I love the further deepening of his friendship with Steve (he went with Steve to Peggy’s funeral, awww) and how he is thoroughly part of the team. Wish he’d had a bit more of a plotline of his own, oh well. I am highly amused at the way they gave Sam a drone as a nod to comics!Falcon’s actual falcon Redwing.
-Natasha is trying so hard to do the right thing for the world while also doing right by her friends. She gets a lot of shit from people for being morally grey but I think she’s actually a deeply moral person, she just is willing to do more dubious things in support of the larger picture. I adored the scene where she came to the end of Peggy’s funeral and gave Steve a hug. (This movie needed so many more hugs for Steve, and everyone else too.) I wish the movie had more of her, but then again, that’s my complaint with every Marvel movie. If they ever make a Black Widow film my complaint will be the ten minutes she’s not onscreen.
-Super excited to see Black Panther! His look and fighting style were a joy to behold. Even in this crowded movie he got a plotline of his own. It was a pretty simplistic “Grief=>Vengeance Quest=>Really Stubborn About That Vengeance=>Finally Laying Down the Need for Vengeance” storyline, but he handled it with grace and charisma. I look forward to the Black Panther movie and getting to know him more.
-I don’t care if Vision was “worthy” to lift Mjolnir in AoU, because in this movie he was definitely the Creepy Boyfriend towards Wanda. He walks through walls to intrude on Wanda’s conversation in her room. He prevents her from leaving the house. Dude, just because you’re a mystical android or whatever doesn’t make this stuff okay. Wanda, meanwhile, is maturing into a thoughtful young BAMF; she's great.
-The scene at the end with Rhodey and Tony (and the most excellent Stan Lee cameo) was lovely. I suspect Rhodey will be calling literally everyone he knows to tell them about Tony Stank. I do wish the movie had made a bit more focus on his friendship with Tony before the accident. He got grievously injured to further the (white) main characters’ plotlines, and didn’t even get much character development to make up for it. :( I hope this isn’t the end of his appearances in the MCU.
-The things I disliked most were mostly the things I already disliked going into the movie, namely the general premise that all the heroes are fighting each other and that the movie shoehorns in Ant-Man and Spider-Man instead of focusing on the already large cast of existing Avengers. Black Panther is a cast addition that made sense, but those two were only there to pad out the fight scenes and have some one-liners. The scenes with the Arthropod Dudes were lots of fun, but they were tangents that I felt weakened the movie as a whole.
-It felt really contrived to me how the movie had all the characters willfully refuse to calm down, listen, or compromise so it could get all of the superheroes fighting. I dislike this whole Civil War premise and hope that future movies go back to building a team instead to fight actual evil.
-Hot Young Aunt May? Whyyyyyyyyyyy? I am weirded out.
-I am a super bummed that Tony and Pepper have broken up and that she wasn’t in this movie. It explains some of Tony’s less than stellar decisions and poorer than usual emotional stability in this film, but I wish it hadn’t happened and I hope it is undone AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Like, I want a random scene in Doctor Strange where someone is looking at the celebrity news and sees that Tony Stark and Pepper Potts have gotten back together. That is the urgency of this situation.
-Seriously, why did Tony decide that a battle with other superheroes where various governments were just itching to arrest the lot of them was the right time to bring in the teenage kid crimefighter he’s been eying? Pepper would never have let this happen.
-“Spider-Man WIll Return” said the end of the credits. Of course Spider-Man will fucking return. More Spider-Man movies are only slightly less certain than death and taxes. I really like the character, but the number of movies he has (especially compared to all the heroes who aren't white dudes) is ridiculous.
-Personal headcanon that Clint and Natasha started fighting each other in the big brawl because they were each trying to keep the other away from the more enhanced fighters who might hurt them worse.
-When Nick Fury gets back from wherever he is, he is going to be SO PISSED OFF.
-Can the Captain America scenes in the next Avengers movies just be Steve receiving hugs and having barbecues with his friends and petting animals and generally being happy? And the same for Bucky? Plus lots of them tenderly making out? No? Well, thank heavens for fanfiction.
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This, this!!!! I saw the directors give a talk last week and they mentioned that they were actually inspired by Sebastian and Anthony's interactions irl in that scene.
YES ALL THE BUCKY FEELS. I would also watch a serious, introspective indie film about Bucky Barnes' personal character development. Or like, a 6 season HBO series on it.
I guess this is why we have fanfiction.
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Ha! That makes me like the scene even more.
YES ALL THE BUCKY FEELS. I would also watch a serious, introspective indie film about Bucky Barnes' personal character development. Or like, a 6 season HBO series on it.
Oh, HELL yes to both! I would consider paying for HBO for the latter. But it is not to be. Oh well. Fanfiction may not have Sebastian Stan's face, but it does have more willingness to have lots of long talks about feelings.
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Good point. I suppose it is logical for her to be early 50s! I think my being weirded out by it comes from three factors: (1) traditionally Aunt May is drawn and cast as significantly older, and it's hard to get used to a new image (2) to me, Marisa Tomei looks like 10 years younger than she really is, which I guess is still a plausible age to be aunt to a teenager but just increases the discrepancy from my mental image of the character, and (3) the film constantly lampshaded her hotness by having Tony repeatedly point it out. Now, casting someone who looks different from earlier versions of a character can be a great thing if it increases diversity, but casting a comparatively younger, more attractive actress is not exactly a progressive action. Marisa Tomei is still old enough that it's not an egregious case of the Hollywood trick of casting someone implausibly young in a maternal role, but still. This is a pretty minor issue for me, but I don't love it.
What I really loved about the whole introduction of him in the movie was him haggling for plums at the market like you do. He was making a life for himself, damn it and then some vengeance filled dude comes along and ruins everything.The whole Bucky characterization has been phenomenal. He's really still himself, but having to deal with a whole lot of angst and bullshit.
Yes!!! I loved that he wasn't wandering around confused and barely verbal like a lot of fics seem to show him. (I enjoy plenty of those fics, but a slightly more functional Bucky is my preference.) He may not have felt ready to go seek Steve, but he got himself put back together and was trying to be peaceful. Given what was done to take his agency I think it's really important that he did so much figuring out who he was on his own.
My kingdom for Bucky and Sam at a military support group fic (can be set before, during, or after the VW roadtrip fic haha)
Agreed! I would read the hell out of such a fic.
Thanks so much for the link to that meta! That was outstanding.
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and I LOVE Sebastian Stan... but this movie took it to another level... MAN was he doing it for me in this film!!! and I never actually got the whole Steve/Bucky thing... but I am TOTALLY on board now! so any fic recs would be awesome!! :)
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I am so glad you're on board the good ship Steve/Bucky! I don't yet have any CA: Civil War fic recs, but I am happy to share some of my favorites written before the latest movie.
-an endlessly upward world by kaydeefalls: a series of two fics plus a vid. Great characterizations and lovely prose. The first fic is Bucky trying to figure things out largely alone, the second is Steve bringing Bucky in and not really dealing well with the complicated reality of that.
-through smoke, solid ground by magdaliny. Bucky recovery fic, full of feels and interesting interactions with other Avengers, and a happy ending. Second person, but I suggest giving it a shot even if that POV isn't usually your thing.
-Infinite Coffee and Protection Detail series by Owlet. Unique, hilarious, touching tale of Bucky going from pretty much feral to a weird, damaged yet functional member of society, complete with a bunch of busybody elderly friends and an obsession with food and fancy coffee drinks, not to mention a somewhat codependent but still very sweet relationship with Steve. The story where Bucky and Steve finally make it a physical relationship ("Upgrade: Advanced Happiness Skills") is so very full of joy.
-lonely houses off the road by Etharei. Bucky returns to Steve, but not before meeting all the other Avengers. Amusing but also poignant.
-Reconstruction Site and Amidst the Rubble (We Can Build a Better Us) by EmilianaDarling. Just really nice character growth. Among the first fics I read in this pairing, and still in my favorites.
-Poltergeists by dirtybinary. AU of the end of CA: Winter Soldier where Bucky takes Steve with him after dragging him out of the Potomac.
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I think Vision's basic problem is that he doesn't really get human interaction. I got more of an innocent vibe from him than a creepy one. However, he definitely needs to work on his social graces, and from someone better at them than Tony. Pepper would be an ideal teacher.
I think both Steve and Tony had good reasons for what they did, and I think both have been so badly damaged that they couldn't deal with each other's issues. I have to admit being more Team Iron Man on this one than Team Cap. They have caused a lot of damage (and Tony's all too aware that the last one was on him, though Wanda shares responsibility), and they need to earn some trust back. I spent a lot of the movie wanting to hug Tony, actually.
I think Clint and Natasha's friendship will be completely unchanged after this. "Yeah, we were on opposite sides, whatever. Coming over for dinner, Nat?" They're practical.
My guess is that when "Infinity War" kicks in, Team Cap and Team Iron Man will join up, and we'll have hero bonding again. Ultimately, though they don't seem it, Tony and Steve are cut from the same cloth.
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Friendship and brotherhood are important and need lots of fannish love! For me, one of my shipping pressure points is close friends pining over each other and refusing to admit that their feelings are also romantic, so it didn't take much to get me onboard. *shrug* It's a powerful, moving relationship with either interpretation, I just spend more time mentally yelling at them "now kiss!"
I also love Sam's friendship with Steve and the fact that he was clearly jealous of Bucky's relationship with Steve. The whole "I'm Steve's BFF, not you!" sniping match they occasionally engaged in was *everything*
Indeed! I rather liked that even though Sam has spent so much time helping Steve try to find and help Bucky, he and Bucky don't get along, at least right now. It helps avoid the Saint Sam stuff I see in a lot of fic and lets Sam be more of a whole person, jealousy and all. Plus, their back and forth is just so hilarious.
I think Vision's basic problem is that he doesn't really get human interaction.
IDK, it reminds me of how when male geeks are creepy towards women at conventions I often hear their defenders talking about how the creepy guys are just socially awkward or just don't get how to interact with women. That might be why he did it, but that explanation doesn't take away from the creepiness of the action. The Vision is obviously very new at being humanoid, but he comes from JARVIS who was unfailingly polite. He has the knowledge of how humans behave towards each other, so I wish he'd use it. His behavior wasn't quite bad enough to set me against the character long term, and I do think he could learn (preferably, as you say, from Pepper), but I don't like what we saw here. I do get how others might read it differently, however.
Yeah, Tony and Steve definitely both have good points. Honestly to really pick a side I want more details about the agreement than we get in the film. International oversight and accountability seem better to me than unregulated vigilantes, so in theory I'm like Natasha, Team Iron Man despite a personal closeness with Cap. However, a lot would depend on the nitty-gritty policy details. Would the Avengers be able to respond quickly to an emerging situation or would they need to go through 17 levels of committees and red tape every time? Would allowances be made for the fact that some collateral damage is nigh inevitable at the larger than life scale of their battles, even when they're doing their best to preserve lives? What provision would be made for people newly coming into superhuman abilities who don't yet have full control over their powers? Mind control is a reality in the MCU, both through HYDRA-style technology and magic like Loki's, so how would any regulatory body deal with people like Bucky (or Clint in the Avengers) who committed crimes only while victims of mind control?
Tony does need SO MANY HUGS.
I think Clint and Natasha's friendship will be completely unchanged after this. "Yeah, we were on opposite sides, whatever. Coming over for dinner, Nat?" They're practical.
100% this!!
My guess is that when "Infinity War" kicks in, Team Cap and Team Iron Man will join up, and we'll have hero bonding again.
I assume so!
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I know! I was super touched. Noodles is the best cat.
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A thousand times YES! I wanted more interaction between the three of them. The "Can you move your seat forward?" exchange is cute, but it goes by in a flash. Maybe in Phase 4, once Bucky is cured of his Hydra brainwashing, Marvel can make a road trip comedy with the boys.
-Can the Captain America scenes in the next Avengers movies just be Steve receiving hugs and having barbecues with his friends and petting animals and generally being happy?
I would also settle for a movie with Steve and puppies and hugs. Or Steve hugging a puppy.
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We can only hope!
I would also settle for a movie with Steve and puppies and hugs. Or Steve hugging a puppy.
Puppy hugging could totally be a stop in the road trip. :D
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but Steve still believed in him and showed this by getting into a tug of war with a helicopter
That's the best way to show you really care! XD
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Marvel executives, take note. The people have spoken!
The thing with Sharon... super weird.
Yep. I know Steve and Sharon have had a romantic thing in the past in the comics, but that doesn't make it less weird! Or obligatory to include in the movie.
but Steve still believed in him and showed this by getting into a tug of war with a helicopter
That's the best way to show you really care! XD
Obviously!
no subject
Yeah, there are times when the movies should just say no to what happened in the comics...